the president trying to set an example as a new phase of vaccinations gets under way. the president said today, quote, boosters are important but the most important thing we need to do is get more people vaccinated. that's it for us. the news continues. let's hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." >> thanks, anderson. i'm chris cuomo. welcome to "prime time." breaking news out of washington, d.c. on a looming debt crisis. now, what happens in the next few days could help determine who stays in power or who comes to power. the good news, and right now kind of the bad news, is that the democrats are in a position of making their own fate. the right just did what it does best. it ensured that the country is once again on the brink. this time of not being able to pay its bills. there should be no surprise that the gop voted tonight to put the country in crisis, blocking a bill to suspend the debt limit and avert a government shutdown.

they're playing americans for fools. fools who might believe that refusing to raise the debt ceiling is a way to keep democrats from their spending aims, which by the way, are a laundry list of exactly what you said you've wanted overwhelmingly in the polls. but this is not a way to stop spending going forward, okay? it is yet another blow to america's viability. when you mess with the debt ceiling, you mess with the strength of this economy. mitch mcconnell knows that. that's why this is what he said last week. >> we all agree america must never default. the debt ceiling will need to be raised. don't play russian roulette with our economy. step up and raise the debt ceiling to cover all that you've

been engaged in all year long. >> okay. that was last week. now, today. >> we will not provide republican votes for raising the debt limit. there's no chance republicans will help lift democrats' credit limit so they can immediately steam roll through a socialist binge that will hurt families and help china. >> now, here's what you have to understand. i have said on this show many times, don't hate the player, don't hate the game. to the extent you can, you shouldn't hate anybody, it does more to you than it does to what you feel about anybody else. but mitch mcconnell knows that what he's saying right now, right there, it's not for other lawmakers, they know it's bs. it's just to deceive people like

you. the debt ceiling does not get raised to pay for what you are going to spend. it gets raised every cycle to pay for what was already spent, meaning what trump and mcconnell spent, and never balanced thanks to an unpaid-for tax cut. mcconnell is not saving you money by doing this. he's playing you for a fool and trying to keep the government from paying for what they already spent. it is retroactive. that is a fact. and no, this one is not a, come on, both sides do this. no. democrats helped raise the debt ceiling when trump needed to do it. and mcconnell won't. he says his party will only support a clean stopgap funding bill to avert a shutdown. what does that mean?

look, it's going to mean what they want it to mean. and we're going to have to see. and that moves the ball over to the democrats. first, to give you an idea of what's at stake, if the ceiling isn't raised, salaries to federal workers, payments to medicaid recipients, social security checks, military paychecks, monthly child tax credit, among other things. now, the democrats. they are creating problems of their own, potentially. the house, until very recently, was -- well, they are, they're still debating this massive infrastructure bill. they had a caucus meeting and we'll have news on that in a second with somebody who's a big player. it already passed in the senate, okay? and this is a huge bill also. it's going to affect how you and i get from place to place. the roads we drive on, the bridges we cross, the internet we surf. the only bridge this bill can't

address is the one that democrats seem to have between factions. the house vote has been kicked to thursday because this monday date, as many have argued, including this show, was never going to be reasonable. and nancy pelosi is a pro, she's not going to put a bill on the floor that she doesn't have the votes for, okay? progressives are being asked to pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill in front of them, the one that went through the senate. and trust that their much larger reconciliation spending bill will still make it to the president's desk. they don't buy it. now, that's a bad sign. the progressives say, no, they have to be done at the same time. the president's on our side, this is what he wanted. again, a reminder of what is at stake if the democrats keep shooting at each other. they could lose the majority after the midterms next year. the propagators of the big lie, whitewashers of january 6th,

ignoring what just happened in arizona to keep falsely counting votes under some false pretence in other states, they could very well come back into power. >> they made up a hoax. the democrats, they made it up, it was a hoax. now they're doing it again with the january 6th, okay? they're doing it again. >> january 6th was a hoax? really? it may have seemed surreal. but it was very real. this is what you are up against. can democrats afford to be fighting with each other when that is what they're against? let's bring in a player who can take us behind the scenes of what's going on. today was a big day, they just finished having a big meeting among democrats. the man on your screen, one of the progressive democrats willing to bend a bit to help biden get this infrastructure bill through. his name is ro khanna, deputy

whip of the congressional progressive caucus. good to have you back on "prime time," sir. uh >> chris, always great to be on. >> so i heard from representative jayapal that there was progress made, you guys are close. what's the reality? >> we are close. we all want to get behind president biden's agenda. let's be clear, there are 210 house democrats who want to do that. there are 48 senators who want to do that. there are very few holdouts. what we've said is we just need a public agreement about the reconciliation spend and some of the framework and we're ready to vote for the bill, so let's just get everyone in a room, get that agreement done, and then we pass the president's agenda. >> do you guys understand what you're playing with here? i get that democrats are not republicans. i get that you guys don't do

lockstep the way they do, most of the time. but your mandate was, you know, you guys right now are saying the mandate was the spending bill, yes, and infrastructure, but really the spending bill, no. the top item on your mandate, ro, and i know you know this, was no more trumpery, no more toxic politics, no more opposition as a position, get things done. are you guys worried that even what's happening right now may weaken your hand going into the midterm? >> chris, yes, we're worried. i mean, i read robert kagan's chilling piece about the rise of trump in 2024. anyone who dismisses that is foolish. and we have to govern. we have to deliver. the consequences of us failing are very severe, not just for our party, not just for this president, but for democracy itself. and a number of members of the caucus made that point, that more than anything, we have to get this done because democracy itself is at stake.

i believe that, progressives believe that. moderates believe that. and that's why ultimately i think we're going to rally around joe biden. he's the president, we need to fall in line, get behind him. and he can come to an agreement between the factions. we're saying we're willing to negotiate. i guess i don't know what more progressives can do but say we want what the president wants and get his agenda through and we're willing to be reasonable. >> what if the president says vote yes on thursday on the infrastructure bill, ro, let's get that done, and take on faith that i will get the reconciliation bill in the best way that i can, would you vote yes on thursday? >> the president is not going to say that. i've been in touch with -- not the president directly. >> why do you have to defeat my hypothetical, ro? i spend all this time coming up with it and you have to shoo it away. >> you come up with better hypotheticals than anyone. >> would you vote yes on an infrastructure bill? >> i would vote yes on an

infrastructure bill that the progressives were part of negotiating and that had the president's priorities. mere we have an infrastructure bill that says we won't have electric buses, we won't have an clean energy standard, we won't take any advice or perspective from progressives. and now you want us to just vote for that? that was never the agreement. if you wanted to do an infrastructure bill and you had progressives there and you wanted to have clean energy standards, sure, i could vote for a separate infrastructure bill. but the understanding in the beginning was we're going to do this because we need the romney vote, we need the portman vote. >> you didn't get them anyway. >> we'll get some of them. we're saying we're open to negotiating a reconciliation. but how can you in the 21st century pass an infrastructure bill that doesn't deal with climate? that's certainly not what any democrat ran on.

>> absolutely, and in the polls it's not where people place their priorities on your side of the aisle when it came to what they wanted to see. however, how much credit do you give the argument that something is better than nothing? >> i give it a lot of credit. and the reason i give it a lot of credit is, chris, you know i was a co-chair for bernie sanders. i get criticized by my base, we don't have medicare for all, we don't have free public college in this bill, we don't have a $15 minimum wage in this bill, we don't have a lot of things that bernie sanders, elizabeth warren believed in. we're willing to compromise more. we said let's pass this bill in the senate before bringing it to the house. we're willing to compromise and say let's just get a public agreement. they haven't even given us a number, chris. the president basically begged them. they said, put up a number. how can you negotiate when the other side isn't even willing to tell you what their proposal is? i feel in this case the progressives have been exceedingly reasonable. we want to get something done, and we just need to get behind

president biden's vision here. >> the mcconnell move on the debt ceiling, not a surprise. the hypocrisy even week over week, not a surprise. but what does that tell you about just how high the stakes are, how willing the republicans are to do everything they can to have you guys fail, and what does that mean in terms of how much you guys have to come together on your side of the ball? they're waiting to kill you on the other side. >> chris, i always knew they wanted us to fail. what is shocking is that they want this country to fail. you exposed the hypocrisy. and the biggest hypocritical line in mcconnell's speech is "this is what we need to do to compete against china." give me a break. the single biggest thing we could do to give china a leg up is to default on our debt. it would basically be handing

china the competitive advantage of the 21st century. any republican who cares an iota of us leading should be voting for for raising the debt ceiling. democrats have always been responsible. the american people are smart. they played these shenanigans in the clinton years. the american people saw through it. they'll see through it this time as well and i think they will reward democrats at the polls for doing the responsible thing. >> do you think that there is a vote this week at all on the democrats' side? >> i'm hopeful. i think we're closer than people realize. i think we can get an agreement. the president i think has done an extraordinary job along with ron klain and steve richetti. they're reaching out. they've convinced 99% of us. they just need to convince a couple of other folks. democrats around the country are outraged that a few people are blocking the aspirations not just of those in the congress and the senate but of democrats around the country. we nominated joe biden. we elected joe biden. he's sort of the median part of

the democratic party. he's been a lifelong moderate. is it too hard to get behind him? that's politics, he's the leader, not me, not every other member of congress. let's get behind our democratic president. >> i appreciate that. it's a perfect segue to our next segment. congressman ro khanna, thank you very much. good luck doing the people's business. be well. what happens now? it's going to be very profound on the future of who leads us. how? we have the wizard of odds to show us where americans stand on these bills and what biden and the democrats can learn from one of trump's legislative victories. some good insight from that guy, next. one, two! one, two, three! only pay for what you need! with customized car insurance from liberty mutual! nothing rhymes with liberty mutual. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ new projects means new project managers.

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♪ ♪ mom! mom! every day can be extraordinary with rich, creamy, delicious fage total yogurt. the bad news is that the democrats are showing this country that they are not together.

the good news is, the country is with them. proof? both the senate-passed infrastructure plan and this larger $3.5 trillion package that progressives want to pass through reconciliation, they are in an existential place with both of them. but if biden gets his wish list, even a fraction of the plan could dramatically transform our lives and are wildly popular. i want to give a hat tip to axios, okay? they kind of framed what the reality will be, with more than $66 billion invested in amtrak and other rail projects. high speed trains may become a preferred mode. maybe even over flying. we'll see more electric cars because they'll be more affordable. the plan is to give you up to $12,500 in tax credits per vehicle. and you can drive those electric cars to pick up your kids from a free or subsidized day-care center. now, that is a big ticket item with people of all different

faces and places in this country. the white house says the average family will save $14,800 a year while lower income families won't have to pay anything. the plan calls for two years of free preschool, two years of free community college, and the broadband expansion would mean high speed internet from anywhere. medicare would expand, would cover dental, vision, hearing. the price of many prescription drugs. insulin. and for those who need to take care of a sick family member, you get 12 weeks guaranteed paid leave. not to mention that there are investments in clean energy, affordable energy, job training programs. here's the catch, how will you pay for it? the bottom line from the white

house, it will pay for itself through increased taxes on the rich and other measures. but on the senate bill alone a cbo score found it would instead add hundreds of billions of dollars to the deficit over the next ten years. now, finding a way forward is going to require democrats to lay out a clear path on how to fund it. does that matter to the american people? yeah. but how much and in what way? how do they see these proposals? harry enten, the wizard of odds, has the answers. lay it out, set the table for me for what people see and why. >> they're popular. these bills are popular. you talk about the reconciliation bill, you talk about the senate plan that already passed. two or more to one support versus opposition for both of these bills. if i was a strategist, i would say, pass something, pass anything. and we can see that when we make the comparison back to the trump tax cuts in 2017, what did we see there? the trump tax cuts, the opposition was far greater than the support but the republicans passed something. and in passing something, they

were able to rally the base and trump's approval rating went higher. given that the biden bills are popular, you have to at least potentially see the possibility given how unpopular biden is at this point that this could boost his popularity at a time that he needs it. >> one step sideways. the knock is going to be, first of all, they've got to figure out how to pay for it. and it's going to be a lot of taxing the rich. but while taxes, people don't like them, taxing the rich, people like you, harry, everybody is okay with that. when you look across the board, in terms of when you look at numbers of demographics, the idea of taxing the rich to pay for this, that doesn't play the same way as raising taxes. >> that's right. i can tell you the numbers in that same pew poll show that taxing the rich works. we can see this throughout the apologize, that taxing the rich is popular. people don't want to see their taxes increase but they want to in fact see the richest taxes

increase. that's why the trump tax cut was unpopular in 2017, people thought they weren't going to get a tax cut. >> high stakes. the central tenet of biden's presidency is not the spending, is not the infrastructure. the number one thing people wanted from him is, no more trump. they didn't like the tone. they wanted to show government could work. do they believe it so far? >> no. they don't believe it. they don't think joe biden has accomplished much of anything so far. that's part of the reason why i think it's so important for him to pass something for his political well being. just 40% of americans think he's accomplished a great or fair amount. 58% think nothing or very little. he needs to do something. his approval ratings are very low. the base is not with him at this point, the enthusiasm is low.

i would say, again, just looking at these numbers, passing these bills could be the jet fuel he needs at this point. >> now, all of this is a snapshot of a moment in time, we know where we are, that's why this point could be pivotal. you have over six in ten who believe the country is going the wrong way. there are various reasons why they may feel that. but how does it all play into where we are right now in terms of how people feel about the midterms? >> this to me, this slide says it all. and what essentially i did here was, okay, let's take the choice for congress and say, are you enthusiastic or not about voting next year? among those who are extremely or very enthusiastic, look at that. the republicans hold a four-point lead. but if you look at those who are somewhat or not enthusiastic, it's democrats who hold a six-point need. midterm elections, yes, it's about preference, but it's also about turnout. democrats want to do what they did in 2018, get their voters to turn out if they can and do, they have a much better shot in the midterms, and they have to do something to get out their voters for, which these two bills could do. >> harry enten, we call you the

wizard of odds for a reason. >> i try my best. let's taken. when we come back we'll bring in some better lines to look at why the democrats are where they are and why isn't it as obvious to them as it was to me and harry. pass something. look how it worked with trump. people didn't even like the tax cuts. your traditional conservatives are saying, wait, they're not paid for, we don't do this on the right. and it still gave them a boost. why does that not play as logic right now with the left? better minds, next. before we talk about tax-smart investing, what's new? -audrey's expecting... -twins! ♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan.

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i want you to know that when you complain about something, it doesn't fall on deaf ears. many of you say, will you stop talking about trump? why, why do you -- may i make an argument? trump matters. trust me, there is no pleasure in talking about the former president. not for me. but he is the one that almost half of congress seems to follow. and because not only is he the leader, but it's how he is leading. he is all in on chaos. listen.

>> they're destroying our country. our country will not survive this. our country will not survive. >> the guy just said january 6th was a hoax and he's talking about what threatens the existence, the survivability of this country? and you have to see what he's doing, because they're all doing it. not all. many of them are doing it now. the awful, ineffable "they." meaning anyone who is not with him. and despite losing in epic fashion, he lives a lie that lingers, despite it failing every test. ever-fueled by poisoned passion, but never proof. his lawyers always knew it. state by state, officials in his own party knew it, and know it. even the fugazi cyber ninjas now know it. did you hear that? that is the sordid silence of almost half of congress.

and because they refuse to call out arizona's echo of the obvious, the lies linger. and even grow more accepted every day. look, to the point where a majority -- that's not in-party -- now no longer have confidence in the core of our system of government. if you don't believe that elections reflect the will of the people and should be acted upon, what do we have? is that selling america first? or is that america at her worst? and all just to get power back from the democrats. what will be left? it is in this gangrenous group, that liz cheney stands out. not just what she's saying, but the fact that she's the only one

saying it. >> the alternative cannot be a man who doesn't believe in the rule of law and who violated his oath of office. >> here's the thing. she's not the only one on the right who thinks it. many in my business are often told off the record how bad trump is. he's like a bad rash. but the base, whoa, you know, i have -- book after book keeps

telling us that trumpers like lindsey graham, mike lee, they know the danger. that's why you're not shocked to hear so-called republicans say one thing in public but something else in private. >> the argument that you often here is that if you do something that's perceived as against trump, that, you know, you'll put yourself in political peril. >> all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men and women to do nothing. now, that is commonly misattributed to edmund burke a century ago in england, but so on-point that jfk adapted it here in the '60s. and it matters as much and it is as true, germane, and relevant today. this is a warning to right and left. democrats better realize that fighting themselves does not look like robust debate, it looks like weakness to a country that was promised better. 2022 is coming. and with it, a wave of retrumplicans willing to do anything to spread distrust about the last election, changing laws to affect the next one, including redrawing electoral maps in a way that makes a mockery of majority rule.

will the right wake up to the faustian bargain it is making with a malignant man and mentality? will the democrats wake up and realize any bargain that gives people even some of what is wildly popular is better than nothing. or will the rest of us awaken to a reality that irrevocably abandons the promise of america? let's talk consequences of a fractured democratic party with van jones. what are they going to do this week? what do i not get about why they think that this is okay? a better mind, next. oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? so you only pay for what you need. sorry? limu, you're an animal! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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♪ i see trees of green ♪ ♪ red roses too ♪

♪ i see them bloom for me and you ♪ (music) ♪ so i think to myself ♪ ♪ oh what a wonderful world ♪ let's take a listen to the democratic state of play right now. >> we will vote for both. but we need to actually get the reconciliation bill done. >> we've got infrastructure, historic, once in a century. there's no reason we shouldn't pass that right away. >> whoop!

meanwhile, this is the threat they're facing. >> because they cheat on the elections, they don't need votes, they cheat on the election. >> the man will lie and stop at nothing. are the democrats playing like that's what they're playing against? let's bring in a better mind, van jones, the one and only. good to see you. >> good to see you. >> am i missing something? >> well, listen, i think it's a healthy debate. i know right now people are biting their nails, it's a tough week. but the progressives have a point. the policies the progressives have been fighting for are wildly popular, insanely popular. and they have the opportunity to get more done. and when you have that moment, you know in politics, when you have that moment, you want to

get all you can out of it. people keep saying, just compromise, compromise. i understand why you say that. at the same time, every dollar they back off of could be a grandma that doesn't get a hearing aid, could get a toddler that doesn't go to pre-k. the ideas that they're fighting for are so important for ordinary people that it's hard to tell them, hey, just sit down, shut up, back off, let the moderates have their way. the moderates actually have the unpopular positions because they're less enthusiastic about some of these programs and the progressives for once actually have the country on their side according to the polling data. that's i think they want to stick it out and get all they can while they can get it. >> i'm with you. optics, though. optics. they should have been doing this in quiet and they're not. if you look at what we learned, trump didn't get the tax cut he wanted. people didn't like the tax cut but he still got a boost. if people get $1 trillion of spending on those, there are going to be a lot of grandmas without hearing aids, to use

your metaphor, but there will be a lot more with them than there would have been otherwise. will the democrats get punished if it's $1 trillion, i'm just throwing the number out there, instead of $3.5 trillion? >> no, i don't think they get punished. look, first of all you have nancy pelosi and i believe at the end of the day you're going to see the bills get passed and get passed the right way, in the right order. but it is in fact the case, that you're looking at a democratic party that is watching people come home from afghanistan after 850 gazillion dollars become spent, nobody can even count how much money was spent over there, and there's not a positive outcome. when those are the numbers you're talking about and now you have a chance to spend real money on real people's problems, i think the progressives are right to stand their ground. i think it's the moderates in this case who need to be looking in the mirror.

why will the progressives be blamed if we don't get over the finish line when the moderates in this case actually have the less popular position? >> i think i know what i'm missing, i just figured it out. that's supposed to be your job. here's what i'm missing. you're talking progressives and centrists and moderates, and you're not wrong, but i don't know that they people watching see the interior factions the way you do. and rightly so, van. everything you've said is 100% accurate and backed up by the polling data. you're right, okay? but i don't think that's what people see. people see, are you going to do something for me or not? because these guys on the other side, they are desperate to get back in power. >> look, in some ways it's kind of like the game of thrones, the white walkers are coming. you have a much bigger threat than whatever's going on in king's landing. so i understand that you have that bigger threat. i talk to progressives, both grassroots and in office, what they're saying is, the bigger the package we can get across the finish line, the stronger we are ultimately.

don't forget, on the other side, when the tea party was trying to get the republican party to move, they were a lot more fractious, a lot more belligerent. they were -- you know, they were bringing out the torches against their own people. yeah, there's some back and forth. >> this is not that. remember why you guys got elected, you guys got elected because nobody wanted that anymore. it's a little bit of a lighter congressional side than with biden. but they believed you guys could do better in terms of getting things done. you say pelosi. is she going to be the arya stark of this situation? do you see her coming, flying over the top when jon snow doesn't know what he's doing and is going to finish this off, is that what you're saying? >> i believe that in my heart of hearts. do not bet against nancy pelosi

under any circumstances, she will get this figured out, she will get this thing done, she's get us across the finish line. but i think it's healthy for this party to look at the fact, we do have power in the hands of the democrats. will we do all we can to help as many people as we can or are we going to let a few voices on the moderate side of the party to make us back off without even having the argument? i respect both sides. the tone of this argument i think has been good. people are biting their nails, they should be, because there's a threat that it won't get done. it's going to get done. a month from now you'll look back and say, we got through the debt crisis, we got both these infrastructure bills done, and the democrats can deliver. that's a much stronger place to be next year than the alternative. >> percentage chance that that's where you are? >> with nancy pelosi, i would say 100%. >> remember, you're from california. remember the raiders motto. just win, baby. >> just win, baby. >> this is your chance. this is your chance. let's see how you do.

van jones, always a pleasure. thank you. >> thank you. developments in the petito case. why the search for gabby petito's missing fiance is being scaled back. and why did the fbi go back to the home of brian laundrie, the fiance? questions we'll tackle with a brilliant legal mind, next. but it's also a game, of information. because the nfl is connected. and at any moment, the fate of the season can come down to this. billions of secure connections, per second. when the game is on the line and the game is always on the line touchdown! the nfl relies on cisco.

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and getting them where they want to be. faster. vmware. welcome change. boy, what a memorial that the petitos had for gabby, trying to remember what she meant in life and what she can mean going forward. and now the focus is going to be on finding the fiance. and there's new audio that sheds light on what police officers knew before they stopped brian laundrie and gabby in moab, utah on august 12. a woman saw brian strike gabby. after that, what did dispatchers

tell the officers before the stop? listen. >> the female that got hit, they both -- the male and the female, they got into the van and headed north. a male hit a female, domestic. he got into a white ford transit van. >> isn't that called an assault? the city of moab is now launching an investigation into the officer's handling of the dispute. now remember, when people saw the tape, they found remarkable -- if you go look it up online -- how nice the officers seemed to be in the situation, and it was a compliment. well, now how should it be seen? the manhunt for laundrie is in its second week. police haven't found any trace. all we know is that fbi agents returned to the florida home laundrie shared with his parents on sunday asking for items that might have his dna. why? joey jackson is with me now. let's go in reverse order, brother. and thanks for being with me tonight. why look for dna? >> so i think there are three

reasons, chris, that they're going to look for that. number one, you have to attach the dna to the actual crime scene itself. so you want a match there. number two, let's remember they're looking for him, right? so in the event he is found without identification, you're going pinpoint, match that it is him. saying the alternative that he is not found, he is in a demised state or some other state, they'll be able to match the dna there. so to the extent the dna is all about identification, those are the three primary purposes in which the dna is being sought. they'll have a sample, and they'll be able to attach it in each of those instances. >> witness says to an officer i saw the guy hit the woman, they got in the van and then they left. the officer finds the van, stops them. the guy does not say that that didn't happen. he makes it a little more about her hitting him. why don't you have probable cause for an arrest? >> i think you may have probable cause for an arrest. listen, i lock horns with police officers every day. it's the nature of my job,

attacking them for their investigation or lack thereof, attacking them for their observations, for what they do and not do. in this instance, however, we have to remember, right, we blame the police because they make an arrest and they're heavy-handed. we blame the police because they don't make an arrest. so police are making out there making discretionary calls. i think they could have made the call to arrest. i want to be clear in this instance the person who blame is mr. laundrie. innocent until proven guilty. everyone is entitled to that presumption. but the evidence is piling as to him. whether the police arrested him that day or some subsequent day, if he is heck bent on doing something inappropriate, illegal or toward killing someone, it's going to occur and that's what looked like presumptively happened here. with respect to the police's conduct, we can second guess it, third guess it, fourth guess it. they did not make the arrest, this is what occurred and he is the one to blame, the one responsible allegedly, not the police officers in moab. >> instead, what they said is hey you two guys need to be

separated for a night. they put them in different hotels, and that was it. why ask for the dna now, by the way, just to go back to that first forensic point? >> yeah, i think they're closing in. i think clear to that. remember, there is a grand jury investigation going on at this point. what does that mean? it means that a grand jury has convened, again, consisting of those 23 people, not deciding guilt or innocence, just establishing there is reasonable cause to believe a crime committed and the subject of that investigation committed it. that's mr. laundrie. we know that just a simple majority can vote out an indictment. we also know that they did vote out an indictment that is the grand jury as to that one count of the elect electric fraud. we know they didn't go as prosecutors and to the grand jury to get an indictment for debit fraud. we know there is evidence to build up to the murder so you're going want to present that dna for that grand jury purpose which is another reason. one, the crime scene issue. two, you find him you identify

him. three, if there are remains, you can identify that. four, get that information before the grand jury and make a connection with respect to what occurred and with regard to who actually is responsible. >> people, i was watching during cnn tonight and other places who know this park say they think it would be very hard to be in there this long. >> yeah. i mean, i think that's a valid point. >> we don't know he ever went in there. we just know his car was there. >> that's correct. but they have to, of course, look when they're investigating, and they have to pursue every single lead they possibly can. and they have to, if they believe this is the place, look for him. but if you look at the terrain, the snakes, the alligators, et cetera, it could potentially be problematic. they're scaling back. they're following the leads as they know them. and what their thoughts are is either a, chris, he is arrive somewhere and there, or b, perhaps he is some place else, or c, he is not around at all. >> two families, two people, lives ruined forever.

gabby never coming back. thank you, joey jackson. appreciate you. speak to you again soon. all right. we'll be right back with the handoff. bogeys on your six, limu. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ you have the best pizza in town and the worst wait times. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire

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thank you for watching. "don lemon tonight" with its big star d. lemon starts right now. >> this is the first time in, gosh, months, i didn't see you the entire weekend. >> my loss. >> you were thank goodness i don't have to carry that one this weekend and pay for all the bills. how you doing? >> peachy. >> yeah? >> i am kind of confused by these two stories. this manhunt story. i don't know where this guy is. i was listening to all these experts say they don't think he could make it in the park that long. there is another person if you're going to commit suicide, suicide is not usually a destination activity, unless you're going to jump off something. >> maybe they're asking for his dna, but go on. >> i don't know why they're asking for it right now. that's curious. hopefully it's suggestive of some type of advance. but i'm even more confused -- because that's just sad. gabby is gone and you know what

you need to know there. but with the democrats, i get it. i was just talking to van. i don't think the american people see progressives and moderates or centrist. you see the left and you see the right. and i don't know that it helps to assess this situation by saying, well, the progressives, they've got good points here. these are very popular things. i think people are watching and saying you guys going to get something done for us or not? and they face an existential threat, don. i have never seen politicians be open to what is passing as stay to play on the right right now. i've never seen anything like it. >> as i have said, everything that you've said is why i don't belong to a political party, because listen, there are many good things about political parties and many not so good things about political parties. but i just don't believe in voting because someone is a republican or a democrat. i vote on what they have